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  #1  
Old 05-16-2005, 08:11 PM
Duane Upshaw Duane Upshaw is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 43
Default Mopar Gold Box vs M.S.D. ignition

Just curious here.I have always used the gold box ignition on my car without
any problems along with the correct coil and balast resistor.I have never
tried a Msd or equivalent.Does anyone have direct experience here.Yes I
know about the multi fire and the capacitive discharge etc,but can anyone
verify whether my drag strip et would get lower if I changed to an msd
versus using the gold box.My car currently runs 11:20 at 119 in a 68 Dart
with a w2 340 so the gold box is no slouch.But is the muti fire clearly better?

Duane Upshaw
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  #2  
Old 05-16-2005, 08:15 PM
Kevin Garceau Kevin Garceau is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mauston Wisconsin
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Default

You may or may not pick up in ET.

What you might notice is a little better idle with the MSD. It only gives multi spark at low rpms. It aids in fuel burning in race cars which are generally rich on idle.

You will get a hotter more durable flame from the MSD, but if you are OK now like I said you may be efficient enough with the gold box. I wouldnt run a gold box, but thats just me. The MSDs have so many more usefull functions is one of the reasons I run them.

I have 7al-3 in the Daytona andn will have another for the dragster.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2005, 05:04 PM
BDS 871 Cuda BDS 871 Cuda is offline
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Location: usa
Posts: 266
Default MSD only!

Yes, I ran the gold box also. It has only 1 function. If everything is working right then it all works good. One small glitch and your screwed. Try calling the tech line at Mopar for help.
It is way better to use all MSD. Trust me, the added cost is well worth it. The MSD is way more tuneable and has alot more functions. One other thing, the tech line is easy to reach and very helpfull.
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2005, 05:51 PM
Duane Upshaw Duane Upshaw is offline
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Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 43
thumbsup But did your car run any faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDS 871 Cuda
Yes, I ran the gold box also. It has only 1 function. If everything is working right then it all works good. One small glitch and your screwed. Try calling the tech line at Mopar for help.
It is way better to use all MSD. Trust me, the added cost is well worth it. The MSD is way more tuneable and has alot more functions. One other thing, the tech line is easy to reach and very helpfull.
Yes I am aware of the different features available when using an MSD.But
what I wanted to know was is their any absolute performance gain over the
gold box.I have had problems initially when I installed the ignition but once
I got them sorted out I didn't have any problems.When I first installed the ignition the engine was running terribly.It took a while to diagnose this,but it
turns out the coil was to close to the module.I moved it further away and
the problem was solved.I put the MSD universal rev limiter on the gold box
and it would not limit the engine.I called MSD on that one and they had a
no charge modification to get it to work with the gold box.After these two
problems I haven't had any trouble.But I am looking for more performance
and have never tried an MSD,so I was wondering if anyone had any direct
experience with the two ignitions.Last year I even added a crank trigger
to the gold box.I fabricated my own wheel and used an MSD pickup.The
old magnetic type and it worked out great on the gold box.

Duane Upshaw
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  #5  
Old 05-21-2005, 11:14 AM
BDS 871 Cuda BDS 871 Cuda is offline
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Default More HP ?

I wish I had the answer. When I switched to MSD I also put on a Demon 825 race carb. The distributor was the main problem on my motor, so I tossed the mopar system for the MSD.
The 750 Holley DP worked, but had a warped base plate. The two changes made the car go from 11.58 down to 11.16 and 3 to 4 mph.
More HP from the MSD? I would say yes. How much? Good guess.

This change made it run alot better when I drove it on the street.

Last edited by BDS 871 Cuda : 05-21-2005 at 11:16 AM.
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2005, 12:51 PM
moeflo moeflo is offline
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Location: NC
Posts: 1,524
Default

you'll pick up only if your present ign is hiding some power, now. Really no way to know if that's the case. but, as mentioned, MSD takes that guess away, and their tech guys are very helpful. (not just phone jocks). You really can't go wrong by making the switch. If nothing else, when you eventually need help, you'll be very glad at that point.
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2005, 10:01 PM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Location: shelbyville,tn,USA
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The info I can provide may not directly apply to you---we are oval track racers. But, I strongly urge you to go to a MSD complete unit.

Years ago, we used a Mopar Prestolite race distributor with various gold, silver boxes. Car ran good. But, we had reliability problems(vibration). Bought a 6 AL MSD, kept the Prestolite(before MSD had a Mopar distributor). Car ran some better, especially at higher RPM(above 8K). Engine was a "limited" 340", flat top pistons, flat tappet cam, W2s(non ported), 12 to 1 compression, ported intake. No HP or torque data before/after.

On our aluminum engines(408",W8 heads,14 to 1 compression, gas), I will not consider anything less than a MSD 7 AL.

On our current "unlimited/limited" engine, 356" engine, non ported W2s, 15 degree valve angle, flat top pistons, flat tappet cam, 14.5 to 1 compression, ported intake, methanol fuel----there is 30HP difference between a 6AL and 7AL. The 6AL just won't keep the fuel ignited at higher RPM---wouldn't even consider a Mopar box on this engine.
BTW, the heads may not be ported---but they are seriously "prepped".

One last example---my crazy son's street cruzer---a GMC pickup/ 671 GMC supercharged 355 GM engine. On the dyno it pulled 649HP at 1 to1 ratio. Changed ratios to 13% overdrive----the engine lost power????? Finally figured it out, we had a MSD 6AL box. A change to a 7AL made a major difference---probably over 700 now. In fact, he thinks the 7AL may be inadequate, needs a MSD 12 unit.

Here's where I'm going with all this. Lower HP, lower compression, lower RPM(under 7500), the Mopar box may be fine. When you start cranking up RPM, HP and compression---you need more than the Mopar box can give. The shame of it is---you can't tell the ignition is giving up on you---until you make the change.

Hope this crazy rambling helps!!!
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2005, 11:28 PM
moeflo moeflo is offline
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As usual, top-notch crazy rambling. On your son's truck, Did your record the manifold PSI? I ask because I have a complete centrifugal-blown little Ford, I am going to put into some form of street car, at some point. It's a 347CI, aluminum heads (unported, but about 30 hours of prep), 9 to 1 static. Port injected (with the upgraded pumps, 50lb injectors,etc) The plan is to stay at 9lbs, or slightly under, I have a MSD 6T, and a 7AL2 on hand. I had planned on using the 6, but, now you done gone and spooked me!

Last edited by moeflo : 05-21-2005 at 11:29 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2005, 12:04 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Location: shelbyville,tn,USA
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Moe, Jeff can tell you exactly what ratio, boost he had, etc.

I think it was at 12-14 lbs. with 1 to 1 ratio, about 15-16 lbs. at 6% overdrive and was at 20 lbs. with 13% over.

What he finally decided was the Dart heads produce a lot of swirl---and that at higher boost there was so much swirl that it was blowing the fire out with the 6AL. He is also thinking that it is occurring with the 7AL but not near as bad. He is searching for a MSD 12 to "borrow and try" before he spends the $$$. I do know the 7AL idles much,much better.

I keep on telling him that "this is just a street cruzer, not a race car"---he just looks at me ---and changes the subject. He is getting ready for a "shakedown" trip to Helen, GA over Memorial Day Weekend. He already has his pit stops" planned for race fuel refueling.

That 347" engine sounds interesting. I thought about building one for my wife's 40 sedan, decided to keep the original 289 w/ a bunch of original Shelby stuff instead. I didn't think it would be too good to turn a retired school teacher loose with too much under the hood. But then again, she might be interested!!! She's the one who kept telling my son to go for the blower engine in his truck!!
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2005, 01:28 AM
Duane Upshaw Duane Upshaw is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 43
thumbsup Hey thanks for the info

I may just have to try an MSD7al just to see if it makes a difference.
Maybe I'll borrow one to try before committing myself.If the performance
improves then it will be money well spent.My car needs more HP or MPH
to break into the ten second zone from low elevens.But it now runs good off
the line.1:50 60ft.But the ignition may help it run better on the other end.
Thanks for the great info and sharing your experiences.

Duane Upshaw
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  #11  
Old 05-22-2005, 07:28 AM
quickd100 quickd100 is offline
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My questions is, will the MSD 7AL live on the street running hours on end.
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2005, 09:21 AM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quickd100
My questions is, will the MSD 7AL live on the street running hours on end.

It should, we run one for hours on an oval track car. It's upside down under the dash just above the steering just for reference.Less heat up there.
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