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  #1  
Old 07-05-2009, 10:28 AM
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Default High Power slant sixes produced?

Here in Australia, as most of you guys know, we left the slant six behind from about 1972...

The Hemi 6 came out in 1969 in 245 form, with the 215 economy version soon following ahead of the 265 performance engine which ultimately reached 305hp or something in triple Weber form from the factory.

But when it comes to slant sixes, what power ratings did the most powerful of these have ex-factory?

We only ever had the 225 here, and it's from the 225 that the most powerful would have come, I'd think. The first of them had 145hp, then about '68 or so a dual-choke carby was added and 160hp was available. I think that might have been in both the US and Australia... is that right?

Here we then had the Valiant Pacer come out with a slightly modified version of the 160 engine. It had a different cam, higher compression too, I think, some carby changes no doubt... maybe other mods. Chrysler Australia, to my bare knowledge, never actually gave a horsepower figure, but most seem to reckon it was 175hp.

That was sold through until the Hemi 6 came out. But what happened in America, where the slant 6 lasted so much longer?
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2009, 05:56 AM
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That's all pretty early stuff...

Interesting, too. So what about later versions? I see mention of a 'Super Six' about in different threads, what were they?
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:05 AM
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http://www.slantsix.org/articles/Sla...g%20Manual.pdf

http://www.allpar.com/slant6.html
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:22 PM
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Having read through all of that lot... all I can glean is that the Super Six had 10hp extra. But no horsepower figure was given.

Presumably the different rating of hp from the early seventies, which gave 110hp for the formerly 145hp 225, would mean it had about 155hp.
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:53 AM
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1972 IIRC HP rating were SAE net. So that was running an alternator water pump etc.

I forget what my 198 is suppossed to be rated at. The cam got better in '70.

Chrysler never did anything with it after the Hyperpak. BTW those 196 ratings weren't off the showroom floor. That was buy a kit with all the HP stuff. Right down to the muffler.

I think the last time Chevy had a HP 6 was in the Corvette back in the early 50's. The Corvair had 3 engines I can remember. 1 with 2 1bbls, 4 1bbls, and the turbocharged version. I had a freind that had a GMC truck with a Quadrajet on a 4.3 V6. It wasn't a performance thing.

Pontiac had an OHC six. Most were 1 bbl. Maybe 165HP. Some came with the Quadrajet. Probably had a better cam.

Ford? I've seen only 1bbl's on their stuff. Some of the worst ideas I've seen. Intake and head cast in one piece on the 170, 200, 250. On thing in Ford's defense........they built a 300cid!

Let's face it, AMERICA DIGS CUBIC INCHES!!
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Old 07-12-2009, 06:51 PM
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Thanks for that...

So it would seem that the 1969 Valiant Pacers had the most powerful slant six fitted at the factory?
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Old 07-12-2009, 08:15 PM
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Thanks for that...

So it would seem that the 1969 Valiant Pacers had the most powerful slant six fitted at the factory?
The Valiant Pacer is a "Down Under" product, isn't it? Where was the factory?

Are you familiar with this site?

http://valiantpacers.com/vfvg/index.asp
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  #8  
Old 07-13-2009, 08:14 PM
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That's right, it's the car put on the market to compete with Ford's Falcon GT and Holden's Monaro GTS...

Chrysler Australia never went V8 for their race models, presumably because of local content rules. To race, they had to be purely production models up till '72, it would have meant importing A833s and that, along with the V8 engines being a greater slug of non-Aussie content, would have meant they'd have problems with pricing as less local content meant higher sales tax on the cars.

Later they had the need to amortise the cost of putting the Hemi 6 into production, so they went to the triple Weber 265 to pit their Valiant Charger against the Fords and Holdens with V8s. And they sometimes won.

The Pacer was before the Charger, it was a 4-door with the slant in '69, choice of 2 and 4-door with the Hemi 6 in 1970, adding a 4bbl version of the Hemi along the way. The Charger had 10" chopped out of the wheelbase and a bunch more off the rear overhang, it really hit the market strongly in all versions from the plainest 245 Hemi to the triple Weber 265, of which many thousands were sold. Hampered at first by a 3-speed gearbox, it gained a 4-speed midway through '72, a Borg Warner trans that weighed a lot less than an A833 but was nowhere near as strong. All of these cars had Borg Warner rear axles, again, to keep up local content as they were made in Australia.
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  #9  
Old 07-15-2009, 02:45 AM
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Default Aussie Slant 6's

Ray, from what I remember the slant 6 motor was last used in the VF Valiant (excluding trucks), there was the standard 145 HP, 2 bbl 160 HP & the Pacer generally known to be rated at 175 HP. The 160 HP motor was also called a marine motor, it had a slightly revised cam timing & 2 bbl carby with lower restriction air cleaner, possibly a slightly larger dia. engine pipe. The Pacer had all of the 160 HP mods, possibly a different cam (not 100% sure) but a much larger dia. exhaust system, and as most know that enlarging a slant 6 exhaust un-taps HP.
The Americans didn't get a 2 bbl slant 6 until around 1976, 10 years after us, but it had all the smog rubbish on and was no where near as powerful as our 160 HP.
As the VF model came to an end the 145 HP was dropped and the 160 HP badges were fitted to all valiant 6 cyl's, but these last ones had 245 Hemi 1bbl motors fitted. The 1bbl carb was a disaster, it was basically a jam tin with a couple of holes drilled in it, the couple of these motors I owned I put 2bbl carters on, better economy and more power.
My son in-law has several Valiants, the latest is a VF Pacer sedan. This has revived my interest in Pacers as I bought a VG 4 Dr Pacer new in '71 and owned it for 13 years. As usual I wish I had not sold it, it was better than when I bought it and I sold it for the same price as I paid for it new.
I am currently tracking down the original engine spec's of the Pacer & 160 HP motors. We used to use the wade 112 cam which was a high lift 113, the timing was inlet 65 - 25, exhaust 25 - 65, cannot remember the lift though but with more carburation and extractors the motor was a winner at the stop light derby's.
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Old 08-21-2009, 08:40 PM
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There was a hyper pack offered for like one year in the states. It had a 4 barrel carb and larger valves in it. Supposely no other slant six produced more horse than this one. I believe it was on a '61 Lancer.
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  #11  
Old 08-22-2009, 06:34 AM
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Dart 360... I've missed your post until now...

The VF wasn't actually the last model to use the slant here. The VG had the slant as an option in utilities, I think the VGs sent from here to South Africa had slants as well.

Belvedere... we established a while back that the hyper pack was a bolt on kit available from dealers, not an engine as it issued from the factory. There's actually a post gone missing from this thread.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2009, 06:56 AM
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Default High Power Slant Sixes

Yeah Ray, I have worked on many Valiants in the '60's & '70's. I personally have never seen a slant in the VG or later, however it may have been an option in the Dodge version of the Valiant ute, anything is possible.
I think the South African models had the slant because of the American influence, not sure if they got the Hemi, I haven't done much research on the S.A. MOPAR models.
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2009, 09:02 AM
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The slant was used extensively in trucks, farm, industrial, and heavy equipment.

Lull job site forklifts with gas motors had slants. Warehouse lifts, Massey Furgeson combines to harvest wheat and corn.

They do that kind of stuff down yonder?
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dart 360
Yeah Ray, I have worked on many Valiants in the '60s & '70s. I personally have never seen a slant in the VG or later, however it may have been an option in the Dodge version of the Valiant ute, anything is possible.

I think the South African models had the slant because of the American influence, not sure if they got the Hemi, I haven't done much research on the S.A. MOPAR models.
I haven't either, but I was told that the slants kept coming here to be stuck into the South African export cars. I would imagine that would help keep their spares inventory down in the smaller marketplace.

One of the MoparMarket forum members, charkes, has a VG ute with a slant from original... otherwise I'd never have heard of them being used here after the arrival of the Hemi. There was also, I'm told, a very small number of VFs had a Hemi. Don't know if that's right or not.


Rug_Trucker (what does that name mean?)... I think I have seen a slant in a fork here, definitely in Case headers (combines), and a lot in trucks of course. There may well have been other stuff where they were used but I've not seen them.
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:58 PM
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Lull is a brand name forklift 4 wheel drive, 4 wheel steer, 44ft up in the air lifting capability. Pettibone was another brand.

JCB makes something similar. (British made)
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  #16  
Old 08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
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Default High Power Sixes

Ray I can definetly confirm, I have worked on several VF Valiants with Hemi's fitted back in the day, they all had 160 HP badges on them. The owners didn't even know that they had a different motor under the hood.
I also believe now after checking around that the slant six may have been built here in Adeliade from the VE range on, they were getting ready to build the Hemi here in Australia. That would explain how they did some extra modifications to the Pacer motor, raising the compression ratio as it would have been un-economical to modify those relatively small number of engines if they were brought in from America.
As usual our memories are all that we have to rely on as Chrysler Australia don't help much.
Were you aware that a handfull of VJ Valiants 245 1bbl had 727 trans fitted up behind them, when I saw my first one I tried to get one as I was having problems with the BW35's behind my 245's in the Taxis I owned at that time. The blocks were different at the back because the starter motor was mounted down low like the V8's.
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:42 AM
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Chrysler Australia never went V8 for their race models, presumably because of local content rules. To race, they had to be purely production models up till '72, it would have meant importing A833s and that, along with the V8 engines being a greater slug of non-Aussie content, would have meant they'd have problems with pricing as less local content meant higher sales tax on the cars.

Later they had the need to amortise the cost of putting the Hemi 6 into production, so they went to the triple Weber 265 to pit their Valiant Charger against the Fords and Holdens with V8s. And they sometimes won.

Hi Ray.

This is a popular myth, the real reason they never raced the E55 340 was that they worked out they would need more pit stops for fuel and tyres which can make a big difference in a race. Because the Chargers were also lighter than the Falcons and Monaros they didn't need as much power. This is also why the Holden Torana XU1 6 was more competitive than the Monaro.

In New Zealand were there was real factory backing for touring car racing unlike Australian privateers the Chargers came 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Hi Dart 360.

I have also seen a CJ Chrysler fitted with a factory 265 Hemi and 727 Torquflite. I have been told that there was a strike at Borg/Warner transmissions at the time and to keep production rolling they used the US 727s for a while. I have no idea why they didn't use the 904.
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  #18  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:00 AM
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Hemi Metal, Chrysler Australia used what they had with the 727, they stopped using 904's back in about '68 or '69 in readyness for the BW35 that they were going to use behind the 6cyl Hemi. T/F 727's were still being imported for the V8's and the few fitted behind the Hemi 6 were V8 transmissions with minor modifications, they cast a different block to accommodate the 727.
Didn't know about the 265 getting the 727 but I suppose they were selling those as well as the 245's so kept production line going.
Leo Geoghegan tested the 340 V8 Charger and it was quick and Ford were really worried at the time but as you mentioned, local content and fuel were the deciding factors. Remember that Bathurst class races were decided on the showroom price of the car back then which put Falcons in one class, Torana's in another & Chargers/Pacers in a different class again. So if you didn't win out right you could still bragg a class win. Monaro's (GM) were in the same class as the Falcons (Ford) because of the imported engine/gearbox's that their manufacturers used.
Chargers ruled the tracks in New Zealand for a few years, blew the pants off of Allan Moffart's Falcon when he ventured over there.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:13 PM
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I've spoken to people from CAL about this topic at length...

I wrote a story about Chrysler not using V8s until the 'Supercar Scare' of 1972, by which time they were planning to but backed out like Ford and GM backed out of their hotter new models.

This is why the E55 exists... they had imported the 340 engines and had to use them up. They slotted them into automatic cars and detuned them with milder cams and twin choke carbies instead of 4bbls.

The classes at Bathurst changed over the years too. In '71 the E38s ran in the $2500 to $3150 class based on showroom price, this was the same class as the Torana GTR X-U1s. In 1972 they were in the same class as the Falcon GT HOs because the class was based on 'CP units'... capacity multiplied by price, so they were never on their own.

Testing the 340 was done by Ian, not Leo, Geoghegan. Leo was overseas for an extended stay and Ian stood in. The car was said to be not as fast because of handling deficiencies on the tight Mallala track. They didn't persevere with it either, which undoubtedly would have made a difference.

Sure, fuel stops would have slowed the cars. One extra stop in the 500-mile race, perhaps. They would have used more tyres, too, but that extra stop would take care of that. They would have been on the same pit stop frequency as the Falcons... but they were lighter and might have had more power.

In short, they had every chance of winning just as the E49 did. But the E49 needed a bit of luck and very good drivers to stay on it for the whole distance.

Everyone I've spoken to with connections to CAL told me the same thing... local content, the need to keep the price of the cars down to be able to sell volume (the smallest of the 'big four' makers in Australia at the time... or close to it, with a tiny volume alongside Holden and Ford).

So racing the car you want to sell with the engine you need to sell to amortise tooling was the way to go.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:57 AM
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Thanks Ray that has cleared things up mate, local content and the supercar scare did end development of race cars. The really big shame though was that Valiant didn't get four speed manuals sooner and that they were never that strong anyway.

One can only dream what could have happened if the Hemi six was further developed though. The E49 ran a near stock head and with bigger valves and better port work I think that up to 350HP could be had.

Getting back on the subject though of the slant six when I had my 66 VC a mate had a 69 VF Pacer 225 2bbl with three speed floorshift and pacemaker extractors. He could flog most small block V8s in the area and wiped the smile off many a Ford or GM owners face. It is a shame they never had a four speed as they could have been alot more successful in racing.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:39 PM
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Now you're getting back to slants, where this all began...

I reckon it would have been a good bit of gear in the day, though the weight of the slant 6 was atrocious for its size.

Moving up to the Hemi 6 took 160lbs out of the weight and added cubes and grunt. Nothing wrong with that... looking forward to getting some fun out of it when my VG (with A833...) hits the road in a few months.

As for the 4-speeds, Chrysler kept taking Norm Beechey's word for it: "You only need a 4-speed off the line."

Problem was, that put you behind from the start... then you had to get past them!
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:12 PM
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Are performance parts for the sixes you talk of, still available down under?
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  #23  
Old 10-07-2009, 06:05 AM
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Default High Power Six

Kruzer, Yes parts are available for the Hemi 6, they are making after market heads for them as well.
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:21 PM
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Actually, there's a growing list of things...

The future looks good for the Hemi 6 as long as enough get salvaged and squirrelled away somewhere.

And there's plenty of slant 6s for people here to play with.
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Old 02-08-2010, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bell View Post
Dart 360... I've missed your post until now...

The VF wasn't actually the last model to use the slant here. The VG had the slant as an option in utilities, I think the VGs sent from here to South Africa had slants as well.

Belvedere... we established a while back that the hyper pack was a bolt on kit available from dealers, not an engine as it issued from the factory. There's actually a post gone missing from this thread.
I'm not sure the Hyper-Pack was a dealer option as a guy I went to US Army Basic with in 1970 had a complete unit, carb, and manifolds, he was going to sell me for my own slant for (fasten seat belts please) $75 US ( btw, that was in 1970) . According to him, his dad ordered it new from Mopar with it.

Then he got home on weekend pass and found his mom had tossed them in the trash the week earlier.

I had a hard time with Basic after that . . . . . . . . .

Budd
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:55 PM
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my dad got his hands on a demon,/6,when he opened hood it had a 4bbl and a header-he thought it was aftermarket,asked previous owner,that guy said he got it from the dealership that way,unfourtunatly that car is long gone,and my dad has since passed away,taking many usefull memories with him.....stories of racing mopars on dirt tracks,his driver running the car in second gear complete 20 laps,when asked why,his driver replied"i forgot about third",a 340 dart swinger convert new of the lot for$3100,easy 150mph,he said it cruised nice at 140mph...us boys would comment on a nice mopar,and he would comment,"yeah,i crushed a bunch of those,they were worth nothing,along with old ford/chevy/fargo/desoto/buicks/you name it.my dad owned one of the largest autowreckers in the province,back in the '70's our sought after cars were simpily crusher food,no second thoughts what they might be worth.we had a /6 valiant station wagon,that car ran 4 ever,after rear susp rotted out,transplanted motor to a pick-up,last i saw truck still running/driving,motor NEVER taken apart........
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:39 AM
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Well everybody, only BMW has really "stuck" with inline 6's because of costs of production (that long block is hard to cast perfectly straight). Benz buys it's in-line 6's from MAN for the last about 30 years now. A fuel injected 225 Hemi slant would be a very "streetable" engine with lots of low-end, but it costs less than 1/2 as much to make a V-6 (I'm an old Fairlady guy) and it's easier to build the V-6 lighter too. An in-line 6 is "naturally" balanced and runs smoother than a V-6 or V-8, but the "long crank" and block kill the in-line 6 (or 8!) in mass production. Life isn't fair, and today, "packaging" a slant 6 in most cars just couldn't be done. Several auto makers are looking at Boxer 6's (besides Porche and Subaru) because of the smoothness and "packaging" advantages. Boxer 4's would "package" very well in hybrids, and some people are "true believers" in hybrids, so they will be built. I truely wish V-12's were affordable to build (or like Packard, Twin 6's). That can't happen either.
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  #28  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:53 AM
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Australia has stuck with the rear wheel drive family sedans with the Holden (GM) Commodore & fraud falcon, bucking the trend to front wheel drive.
The fraud falcon uses an Aussie made inline six, twin over head cams and also has a turbo option which puts the fraud's V8 to shame.
Pity we only have the Chrysler 300 Hemi in limited numbers here to fly the MOPAR banner.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:05 AM
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Quote from Dart 360: "pity we only have the Chrysler 300 hemi in limited numbers to fly the Mopar banner" That could possibly change as a top Chrysler executive (as well as Fiat) has said they plan to be a global presance. read this linc http//www.allpar.com/news/index.php
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:09 AM
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The Hyper Pak kit was dealer installed or bought over the counter for home installation. No US Slant cars were ever "factory" produced with a 4bbl except the factory compact NASCAR cars, if you want to consider them "factory". Anyone that tells you they had one is confused or just plain full of shyt.

http://dansby.net/slant/Hyper%20Pak/Image2a.jpg
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