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  #1  
Old 07-08-2002, 11:27 AM
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Cry 1962 Plymouth Savoy Wagon Rear End

I want to know if anyone knows what the rear end ratio is on a 1962 Plymouth Savoy Wagon. It originally had a slant six in it according to the vin and it still has the original rear end. I was told it was like a 2:22 but I am not sure. The reason I want to know is because I now have a 440 4-barrel 3spd. Automatic in it (with the original rear end) and a Cavalier is about the same speed as it. (Zero to 60Mph in 10 or 11 seconds, 60-90 in probably 15-18 seconds) I want to know what it is so I can decide what to change it to. I am thinking high 3's (3:83) or low 4's (4:11). Any tips???
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:44 PM
vincel vincel is offline
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Default Gear ratio

Hi, I have a original owners manual for 62 savoy/fury/belvedeere. The only ratio listed for a 6cyl wagon is 2.76. Keep in mind this is the Canadian version and may differ from U.S. or overseas models. I have a 62 Savoy 2dr sedan with a mild built 440 and 727 trans. I run 28x12x15 drag radials and 3.23 gears. My best run is 12.76 at 118.6mph. My car is all steel but was acid dipped in the late 60's, it only weighs 2921lbs. You may want to go with 3.91 gears that were common in the 413 powered super stockers. That is my next move. Goodluck and happy moparing.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:33 AM
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Wasn't 2.76 the tallest you can get?

I would have thought it unlikely that a slant-powered model would have such a tall rear axle. And is it possible that the axle behind the slant is an 8¼" rather than an 8¾"?
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:44 PM
vincel vincel is offline
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All 62 Savoy's came with a 83/4 rear as standard, Valiant models came with a 71/4 rear. The book I have lists gear ratio's starting at 2.06 up to 3.91, with wagons starting at 2.76 probably due to the extra weight. My book is the Canadian edition, does not mention much about wagons. I have a friend with a 63 dodge 330 wagon, I will see what he knows.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:45 AM
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8.25 ring gear with 3.23 ratio. The six pass.wagon weighs 3445 # plus the weight of accessories. Power steering 35#, power brakes 5#, heater 25#, radio 10#, undercoat 40#,power windows 25#,power seats 35#. I know a six cylinder wagon may not have some of this stuff, but I just put it there for information. All this according to the Chrysler issued AMA spec sheet. Don't want any flack about whats right or wrong.
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  #6  
Old 08-30-2010, 12:47 PM
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I thought the 8.25 axle didn't come out till sometime in 1967.

Here is some savoy info that may be interesting for you.

http://www.allpar.com/cars/plymouth/savoy.html

Scroll down it shows a spec sheet for 62 and 63 plymouths.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:27 PM
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There were 8¼" rear ends from the early fifties, maybe longer...

I sort of knew about this because I bought a couple of centres from 1960 Plymouths (to get the 3.73:1 ratio) which had been powered by sixes, I expected to find 8¾" centres when I opened the boxes but they weren't.

But they looked similar, look the same size and can be easily mistaken if you don't know what you're looking for.

The 8¾" centre has the top two fixing studs close together, about 2" between them, while the 8¼" has a spacing consistent with the spacings of the other studs around the circle. The 8¾" also has a flat section to the flange, a straight edge that stands up above the circle as you look at it from the front, right across these top stud holes.

Isn't the later 8¼" one of the non-removable centre section type?

Anyway, you have to use this identification method to find what there is under the Plymouth because both centres otherwise look identical.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:10 AM
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Wink

All the B body cars from this era had 8 3/4 rear axels (in the US ) the most common ratio was 2:76. In a heavy wagon w/ a slant, it probably cam through w/ a 3:23. Unless someone removed it they usually had a little metal tag (on one of the carrier stud/nuts) w/ the gear ratio.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:44 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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A '62 with a six would have an 8 1/4" rearend.

Not the 8 1/4" that was introduced in '69 but a dropout third member with an 8 1/4" ring gear that fit in the 8 3/4" housing; casting number on the pumpkin will end in 448.

The only ratios for the 448 in that year were 2.93 or 3.31.
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2010, 05:47 PM
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John, did they have them in 8¾" housings, or was it as I described that they had the housing with the different stud pattern?

I know the ones I got were from '59 or '60 models.
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  #11  
Old 09-01-2010, 04:20 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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There is a pre-'62 8 1/4" rear end that resembles the 8 3/4" but it has 11 studs instead of the 10 used on the 8 3/4". In '62 they took that ring & pinion and installed it into a 10-bolt carrier.

That 8 1/4" ring & pinion interchanges all the way back to 1937.
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  #12  
Old 09-01-2010, 05:57 PM
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[QUOTE=John Kunkel;

That 8 1/4" ring & pinion interchanges all the way back to 1937.[/QUOTE]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I assume that would be the one that looks like an 8 3/4 that is in my 55 Fargo and my 51 Regent?
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  #13  
Old 09-02-2010, 11:17 AM
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Yes, they were used in Fargos...
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:17 PM
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Just an observation here...A 440 even in mild tune should have enough lowend to 1.)keep up with that car you mentioned or 2.)Break the rearend trying.

I would be more concerned about #2 once you figure out wjy the engine is down on power.

I put a 440 4bbl out of a New Yoker into a 72 Challenger with stock 2.94 rearend ledtover from the 318 that was in it and it kept up with anybody thru first then when it hit 2nd they usually could not keep up with me, and that was shifting at 4500.
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2010, 12:00 PM
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Hi guys, I'm new around here so Hi!

First off - Thanks toRay Bell and John Kunkel - this is the first search I've found that describes the older 8-1/4", been looking for weeks!

Sorry to dig up an old(ish) thread, but I've got a similar issue. I want to rebuild the stock 8 1/4" rear in my 1960 Plymouth Belvedere (Slant 6, A-904).

Bearings, seals and little bits can all be had fairly easily but the gears themselves are a PITA, I don't think there are any aftermarket bits.

Does an 8-3/4" pumpkin fit the older 8-1/4" housing? 8-3/4" bits are much easier to get hold of. I'd swap the whole rear end but shipping one to the UK would cost a fortune, the 'guts' would be a lot easier.

All the best,
60 Ply
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2010, 02:35 PM
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The pre-'62 8 1/4" third member was attached to the housing with 11 fasteners (see reply #11), all 8 3/4" from '57-'74 use 10 fasteners so the 8 3/4" pumpkin won't fit the pre-'62 housing.
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:50 PM
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I actually asked this before, but John's answer semi-satisfied...

But John, if you took the studs out of the housing, would the other dimensions be correct?

ie the depth of the axles in the housing, the locating diameter in the housing etc? So that one could simply change the stud locations and bolt in an 8¾ centre?

I bought two centres from a wrecker in CA and when they arrived they were 8¼s and he had thought they were 8¾s, so it's obvious there's not much difference between them.

8¾s are very easy to pic, by the way, with the two top studs very close together. This is how you can pick one of them alongside an 8¼.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:56 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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I don't have an early 3rd member to compare so I can't answer your questions, Ray.

I do know that in the years when the 8 1/4" was used the axle shafts didn't change so the housing overall dimensions were the same.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:23 PM
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I've been speaking to Dr.Diff and he said that the if the bolt numbers are different, the splines would also be different.

But yes, that's what I was after too. Being in the UK, it's a lot easier to ship pumpkins than whole axles.
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  #20  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:39 AM
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I'll see if I can get a chance to experiment a bit...

If the locating ring is the same and the distance from the flange to the axle's the same, then changing the bolt pattern wouldn't be too hard and it might just work.

In your case it probably wouldn't even need special axles. Virtually everything we do here does!
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60 Plymouth View Post
I've been speaking to Dr.Diff and he said that the if the bolt numbers are different, the splines would also be different.
He's partly wrong, the '57-'61 11-bolt 8 1/4" takes the exact same 30-spline axles as the '57-'74 10-bolt 8 3/4".

The '56 and earlier 11-bolt has 16-spline axles.
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:47 PM
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So it's down to those measurements...

Thing is, I think I can locate several 8¼ housings here while 8¾ stuff is hard to get. I would reckon, however, that even then I'll have an issue with splines, as these were in cars that used flatheads till '63 and iron Torqueflites till '64.
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2010, 09:40 AM
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The man to talk to on these rears is Doug Dutra. He runs one in his Dartcuda.

IIRC the Ebody 8 3/4 is a direct bolt in. And it has parking brakes! I have a friend who has a '60 Belvedere that did that swap.
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2010, 07:30 PM
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E-body is wider...

The B-body is close, but still wider. It does have the same spring perches as the later A-bodies.
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  #25  
Old 12-08-2010, 01:24 AM
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[QUOTE=Ray Bell;811266]E-body is wider...

The B-body is close, but still wider. It does have the same spring perches as the later A-bodies.[/QUOTE

There at least 2 different width B rears. I have a 65 or 66 that will bolt into my Duster.

Don't have to move the spring perches.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:31 AM
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The only way I know the width on my '60 fullsize (other than going out in the -7c snow, dropping it and measuring it) is from the wheel track quoted in the manual.

This claims the track is 59.7" - what does this equate to in terms of width across the drums and width across the flanges?
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  #27  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
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Longram60 is the guy that did the Ebody swap I spoke of. member on another site.

There is a "forward look" site IIRC.
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2011, 06:32 AM
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Hi Guys,

Sorry about digging up the old thread, but I thought Doctor Dodge's post on Slantsix.org was too good not to spread. Sorry it's taken so long . . .

. . . Ok, I don't have enough posts to post links, so here's what the Doctor said:

"I have a 3.31 - 8 1/4 center section (741 case) and it swaps right into any of my 65 and newer 8 3/4 housings... same axle spline count & no mis-matched case bolt hole.

I would agree that you are much better-off if you can get the later 8 3/4 assembly into the vehicle, it will be easier to work-on, find parts for and do gear swaps on those.

Here are some photos of my 3.31 - 8 1/4 next to a 3.23 - 8 3/4 "pumpkin". The 8 1/4 center section is about 15 lbs lighter. (un-sprung weight)
DD"

Googling any of these sentences shouldfind you the original post on slantsix.org
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