any body else tired of the numbers 5.0

[novicius]

Are you referring to that early '90's Big-Block Shootout that Hot Rod staged? Yeah, I have it -- I'll see if I can find it and post the details later in the week but it's sweet!

From what I can remember, there were three cars: a late 60's Chevy Chevelle with a monster GM mill (510" comes to mind -- definitely a stroker 454), a high-buck replica Ford Thunderbolt with an equally high-dollar stroked 602" (stroked 460?), and, of course, the Hemi Orange '70 Super Bee with a Herb McCandless-built stroked 499 c.i.d. Mopar RB-block. I only remember it because it was actually the smallest displacement of all three cars. The cars were all weighed the same (I think they were weighed before and after their runs), run on 92 octane pump gas, and they had to run on street-legal 10" tires.

It was cool to read about the three veteran engine builders discussing their various build-up philosophy: the Ford and the GM guys went for maximum horsepower and displacement (the Ford guys just spent way more money than the GM guys), while McCandless went a different route:

He knew that, given the specs (mainly, the 10" tires), that the cars would not hook up and launch with some stratospheric peak horsepower figure. So he designed the motor to have a *fat* powerband and spin-up quickly; this also meant he didn't have to get as extreme with the mill as the other two camps did. End result? While the Thunderbolt was having issues hooking up and eventually lunched the block with a missed shift, the 'Bee kept launching and accelerating impressively all day long. When the GM boys kept tinkering, trying to get their setup right, the 'Bee was just making 9-second pass after 9-second pass.

To keep a long story short, the GM boys didn't have time to straighten out the bugs of the Chevelle and broke something (fried a piston? I can't remember). The Ford boys roached the tranny or blew the motor due to a missed shift in their $70,000+ (more like $80,000+ today) replica Thunderbolt. It did have the most horsepower and I guess the potential to be the fastest -- but they just couldn't bring it. The Mopar guys had come to run, and run they did, laying down consistent 9's all day long.

To be honest, it wasn't a fair race; the Mopar team came with a car that was campaigned regularly, they knew the setup to the ounce, they had a master mechanic design the mill to win at the track, not simply produce the most horse or put up the biggest numbers. The Thunderbolt was a turn-key racecar, not a regular campaigner, and the Chevelle was built or sponsored by members of Hot Rod's staff and not tested out at all. The Mopar team worked smarter, not harder -- that's why they ran the fastest and won...

- novicius -

P.S. - Again, details are *real* hazy -- I'll look for that article and post the details to correct my inevitable mistakes.

- n.

[This message has been edited by novicius (edited May 22, 2000).]

[Maxwedge]

they ran that type of race two years in a row, and both times mopar came out on top. after that Hot Rod went with the yearly test of crate motors etc and AGAIN Mopar came out on top..that test was ran for two years and then they stopped it cause they were turning into a mopar rag..
some other points on you artical that also have read in the past.
1st the mopar motor's crank had also been areodynamically shaped(Hope I didnt mispell that)so at a higher RPM the crank wouldnt wobble and so the pistons would travel True.
They also had the front leaf sping mounts modified so they could be adjusted either 1 inch" up or down from the stock position. the change in the leafsping angle made more traction. I also have a early 80's artical in hotrod with Dick landy inwhich he said you want the forward liefspring mounting"eye" to be moved up. As close as you can get the eye to the lovel of the cars floor the better. In that artical they had moved the "eye" of the spring 1 inch up...hmmmmm
M-wedge

[This message has been edited by Maxwedge (edited May 26, 2000).]

[shannon]

My brother has a 91 slugstang GT with an automatic transmission. He has flowmasters, K@N, accell super coil and cap. Guess what his best run was? 15.9 at 86!! My friends grand am with a 6 beat his ass with a 15.7 at 85 mph (no bull). I have a 67 dodge dart GT with a 318 and a few mods(.450 lift solid lift cam, headers, four barrel, eldbrock intake, and 3.91 gears) My car has ran a best of 14.0 at 97 mph on mickey thompson Indy SS G-14's. The only reason my brother bought the car was to beat me. Boy was he pissed off when when he saw my tail lights. My advice, buy a dodge.

[704404SPDRR]

About that 90 GT. Tell your brother to put in a set of 3.73 gears."Great drivable gear for the Autos" 3.55 was for the stick, Bump the timing up to 14 degrees above tdc and adjust his TPS switch as close to 1 ohm as he can. Disconnect the water lines to the throttle body and plug them. Pull the front sway bar off and the rear quad shocks. The car with a good driver should be in the High 13's on super unleaded gas then. All this for a cost of look close "$154.00 for the gears. Not to bad for not having to pull off the valve covers at all.

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70 Road Runner 440 4 spd
00 Turbo Beetle 14.50@98
Tech + Certified
A + Certified
98 Admin
NT Admin
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Beta Tester for MIcrosoft, Tantrum, Bethesda, Activision

[mopar413]

I CONSIDER MY SELF A MOPAR MAN ,DROVE THEM FOR YEARS.HAD A 50 DODGE WITH A HEMI 392 A/T , 62 PLY.CONVT.305 HORSE,65 CUDA S,65 CORONET 500 CONVT.426 4SP.70 FURY GRAN COUPE 383,IN 60S,70S.(I AM AN OLD GEEZER).
IN 1986,I NEEDED A CAR.I DIDNT WANT A FWD.(LEAN YEARS AT CHRY).I FOUND A 1984 GT MUST,175 HORSE & 5 SPD.I PUT A 8.8, 3.73 REAR,M/T TIRES,SET TIMING AT 13DEGS.,FLIPPED THE AIR CLEANER LID OVER,WENT TO THE TRACK,IT RAN 14.23 @ 97.I AGREE WITH MAHDRA,I SEE A LOT FLAKES IN MUSTANGS & Z28'S ALSO HONDA.BY THE WAY THE T-BOLT CLONE
WAS MADE JUST SOUTH OF COLUMBUS,CRITES RESTORATION @ IT WAS A TURN KEY,BUT IT WAS ALSO A STREETABLE CAR.I NOW HAVE A 1963 NEW YORKER,33,000 MILE CAR,413 WARMED UP,GOTTA CHANGE GEAR @ MODIFY TRANS.I ALSO HAVE A 100
HORSE NITROUS WAITNG,(CAMARO'S ARE BUGGING
ME).MY CAR IS A CRUISER NOT A RACER,(4000 LBS).WHAT IAM SAYING IS BOTH MOPAR @ FORD
HAVE A COMMON GOAL TO GET RESPECT FROM THE
GM CAMP .(WE CAN ALWAYS DREAM).JUST MY 2 CENTS,SO GUYS DONT BEAT ME UP TOO BAD.

[mopar413]

I CONSIDER MY SELF A MOPAR MAN ,DROVE THEM FOR YEARS.HAD A 50 DODGE WITH A HEMI 392 A/T , 62 PLY.CONVT.305 HORSE,65 CUDA S,65 CORONET 500 CONVT.426 4SP.70 FURY GRAN COUPE 383,IN 60S,70S.(I AM AN OLD GEEZER).
IN 1986,I NEEDED A CAR.I DIDNT WANT A FWD.(LEAN YEARS AT CHRY).I FOUND A 1984 GT MUST,175 HORSE & 5 SPD.I PUT A 8.8, 3.73 REAR,M/T TIRES,SET TIMING AT 13DEGS.,FLIPPED THE AIR CLEANER LID OVER,WENT TO THE TRACK,IT RAN 14.23 @ 97.I AGREE WITH MAHDRA,I SEE A LOT FLAKES IN MUSTANGS & Z28'S ALSO HONDA.BY THE WAY THE T-BOLT CLONE
WAS MADE JUST SOUTH OF COLUMBUS,CRITES RESTORATION @ IT WAS A TURN KEY,BUT IT WAS ALSO A STREETABLE CAR.I NOW HAVE A 1963 NEW YORKER,33,000 MILE CAR,413 WARMED UP,GOTTA CHANGE GEAR @ MODIFY TRANS.I ALSO HAVE A 100
HORSE NITROUS WAITNG,(CAMARO'S ARE BUGGING
ME).MY CAR IS A CRUISER NOT A RACER,(4000 LBS).WHAT IAM SAYING IS BOTH MOPAR @ FORD
HAVE A COMMON GOAL TO GET RESPECT FROM THE
GM CAMP .(WE CAN ALWAYS DREAM).JUST MY 2 CENTS,SO GUYS DONT BEAT ME UP TOO BAD.

[wedgehead440]

I hate mustangs...no its not the mustangs that get on your nerve it is the young mustang drivers. I like the mustang before the 4.6 came out because they are durable and they can be made to run goods e/t's in the 1/4. I have been picked on many times by mustang owners in my buick and have made there months drop open after a lay down a 11 secound pass on them but I would love it if MOPAR would make us a rear wheel drive pony car.... Please mopar if you are listening make us a new charger r/t and put the 360 in it or a fuel injected hemi in it. NO FRONT WHEEL DRIVE...that is for wheel barrows not muscle cars. I love the old mopars and I pray for a new one to take on the mustangs and camaro's every day.

------------------
Waters Racing (owner Jeff Waters)
1993 Prostock Daytona 7:70@172
1987 Buick Grand National 11:77@115
1996 Dodge turbo cummins dually cub cab
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~whra3

[FastJeep5.9L]

I've heard this discusion here many times. And I hope someone is listening as well. It's pretty sad that the only thing Ma Mopar is putting out to compete with these "Ponies" are big heavy trucks. I love the 360 in my Jeep but it's no match for these lighter more powerfull cars. The Charger is a great idea. But who knows if it will ever become a reality. I myself am tired of stangs, birds and camaros. Something new would be great, why not a Mopar.

[beepbeepsrule]

Amen, brother FastJeep5.9L! My Ram is a 1500 QuadCab Sport with 3.55 anti-spin gears and of course the muscular 360. I hooked up against a 72 Camaro once. I pulled ahead about a half a Camaro length and held that most of the way through first then he began to slowly gain it back. At 70mph we were dead even then about 80 or so he began to pull ahead slightly (right about here he began waving goodbye). At 90mph he had pulled ahead but his rear bumper had not cleared my front bumper yet (he's still waving). I had bags of top soil, mulch and other crap for the yard in the back, my gas tank was full and I had a passenger! (The only mods then were the cold air and exhaust). Man, if the current generation 360 was in a Car it would be one tough machine! HEY D/C: BUILD IT IN A CAR AND THEY (WE) WILL COME...!!!!


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1969 Roadrunner (383, .509/292 hydraulic, 3.91 sure-grip, 4sp, powerful car)
1999 Ram 1500 QuadCab Sport (5.9l, 3.55 anti-spin, Cold air intake, Gibson exhaust, JetChip module)

[novicius]

Amen; build us a Mopar Pony Car!

Still, I do have a small-block A727 tranny sitting in my garage. I wonder how feasible it would be to buy a used, high mileage Avenger ES and the Mopar Performance K-frame (for use in creating Pro-Street Daytonas and LeBarons), and having the Magnum 380 crate 360, the 727 with a Gear Vendors Overdrive unit installed, and a solid rear-axle put into it? Other than the fabrication headaches, I would bet my rent money that it would cost less than buying a new Mustang GT or Z28 -- and would stomp both...

- novicius -

[beepbeepsrule]

5.9
5.9
Nothing can touch my 5.9

(Beach Boys or Jan and Dean -- Eat your Heart out!!!!!!!!!!)

[pishta]

Heres a number that should strike terror in a 5.0 driver....5.6. figure it out...can you say AAR-T/A?

[Otherguy]

The most pathetic of this little pieces of junk are the 3.8 V6 ones. I raced one the other night with my 96 Intrepid 3.5L. The first time I beat him by a car length. He couldnt believe it so I raced him again and this time it was a closer race, even though he jumped the gun by about half a second. He couldnt believe mine was bone stock, he had a K&N. Still I had a friend of mine with me who weighs about 260 pounds, he had his girlfriend.
All he could say when it was all over was "My car is still better".
Ma Mopar's 4 door family car kills the pony car!

[diffrnt]

This is getting ugly! I am a current 5.0 owner (84 LX conv. 5.0 HO 5 spd)it's on the way out though, I am about a day away from having my new 4.7 Dak (hence the selling of the mustang), and have a beater 318 4bbl `78 Aspen (ugly, but damn quick!). I agree with the mustang driver theory, granted I am only 20, but most of my fellow stangers act about 13 (even the old oversized grey hairs). Yes it's a fast car, no it isn't the fastest, or even close, but they are cheap, have a HUGE aftermarket, and are fun, that's why we love `em. If most 5.0 owners would lighten up, deal with losing their share of races, and make friends instead of enemies the world would be a better place, but it just ain't gonna happen. I just wanted to let you guys know there are two breeds of pony drivers out there, the level headed are just few and far between.

[DonHoward]

Hehehe, I give Mustang owners fits with my Neon R/T! Low 14's all motor!

;-{)>

------------------
My Home Page, Check It Out

[Nopower]

Hey guys it me I`m back. Alot has happined since our fueds. I Do have to agree that Mustang owners are a little cocky but you guys have no room to talk. It`s ok to be loyal to a car company but you guys here take it to the extreme. You guys think that if it isn`t Mopar it is shit. Well I blew my 302 up but it was my own fault. I put a 351 crate motor into it after experimenting with some chevy motors. About the neon r/t Yeah they are sweet cars but lets consider this. My friend has one as you can see below and he had to modify his neon r/t to cetch up with my stcok 5.0. Not knocking his ride, but i payed 8k for my car and he payed 15k off the lot and he had to dump in another grand just to hang with me.By all means are niether of use running stock now. My mods are cheap and I am happy with my car.I`m not saying you guys havw to like it, and I know you guys run into cocky mustangers, but by all means i am not one. I am a car nut. I love all of the big 3. Mopars,Chevs andFords.....well I don`t like to many fords to be honest with you. You guys need to realize this one fact that I learned. Focus your energy on ricers. Mustangers arn`t the enemy. It is american.v-8, nice sounding exhuast,and rwd. We are on the same team you guys are. I hate that damn honda civics. Neon r/ts are a little ricy, but I can deal with it because it is american and well, it is pretty qiuck for a 4 cylinder.

[DonHoward]

15grand? My Neon R/T was 12grand titled taxed tagged and on the road. And it did not take much for it to give many of the 5.0's I come across fits.

;-{)>

I didn't buy it to be a racer, but then I started having fun with it. It is weird, I never paid much attention to the 5.0's when I had my old Dart Swinger. Only riceboys wanted to race it, go figure. But the damned stripes on the R/T attract a whole lot of flowmastered 5.0's and SN95's wanting to prove a point.

------------------
My Home Page, Check It Out

[roodypoo]

wow you guys sure seem to think your neons and intrepids are fast, my dad has a ton of stuff in our shop that would kill my ford, but when i smoke a 440 six pack road runner witha piddley little ranger, and a 340 challenger ta, ever single mustang i have wasted gas on, tons of dakota rt's and fullsize trucks, a 67 chevelle witha built 400, a 68 nova with a built 350, a 66 mustang with a built 351, something is wrong here. don't get me wrong i ain't mopar hating because i love mopars but c'mon everybody built fast cars at once, atlest give ford credit for building the mustang, its an affordable rear wheel drive v8, what does mopar have that i can buy to compete with it that is rear wheel drive? the dakota rt? don't get me started on them because i hand them there @ss all day long with my ranger which in case you are wondering is all motor, no nos, turbo, or forced induction of any kind.

[cruzerjd]

Wow roodypoo, must be a 460 powered Ranger because all the other Rangers I have ever seen are crap. I don't know what you are really running but let us know so we can determine if you are bench racing or really do have something worthwhile. Not trying to be an @$$hole but most Rangers or Bronco II's I have seen can't get out of their own way. The only ones that can have been either 302 or 351 powered or Turbo'd 4 cylinder. Remember when Trucking magazine had their drag issue out and a 4 cylinder turbo Ranger ran high 12's, but that is with squeeze so it isn't just motor. A good 440 powered D series truck should be able to whoop ass on ya so watch out. cruzerjd

[roodypoo]

alright ya caught me i got a built 95 cobra 5.0 in my splash,soon and hopefully this winter i should finish my 426 stroker based of the 5.0l block. i haven't taken it to the strip yet but she runs pretty good, i got 3.27 gears in it, but should have 4.10's in the next couple of weeks. it took a year to finish the engine swap, wiring was a pain.
and as far as a good running full size with a 440, whatever we have one and it don't touch the splash, now my dads 64 plymouth 2 dr sedan with a built 426 maxwedge hands me my @ss pretty easy.


[This message has been edited by roodypoo (edited July 02, 2000).]

[cruzerjd]

Sounds like a good runner, but a "well built" 440 D100 will hand a lot of folks there ass still. There was a fella running one in one of the Mopar mags in a 1/4 mile shootout and ran low 12's. Now this was not your run o' the mill 440 but a well built well sorted out machine. cruzerjd

[roodypoo]

she runs good, i was originally going to put our crate motor 360 in it, it was only about an inch or so to long to fit in without moving the firewall back. i thought that was going to be the best way to make a ford run fast. but it does what i wanted to and its a fun toy, now the crate motor is going into a 96 dodge dakota.

[Hemiman]

I can't believe this website attracts mopar bashers.

I'm afraid I'm skeptical about Nopowers "tweaks" and running 11's on the motor. Here is a mustang that has gone 11.80s for real, I've witnessed it:
http://home.earthlink.net/~tbeaudoin/

You'll notice amoung his many mods that the real stuff is in the upper end, ie. a set of Edelbrock aluminum heads (stock heads no matter what kind, just don't cut the mustard), a huge nasty solid cam (something nopower never mentioned), and a 5000 stall converter (you believe it's driven to the track? It is...) amoung many other aftermarket items. Not even SVO stuff would be components worthy of such power output. It's all aftermarket roller stuff. The fact that you state Neon R/T's give you comp also really tears down credibility. Even the R/T version neon is at best good for low 15s in stock trim. A high 11 second ride would make tracks so fast on even a 14 second car you'd swear the 14 second car wasn't moving at all. The 11 second car could reach 1/8 mile or half track speeds HIGHER than the 14 second car's end of track 1/4 mile trap speed (especially any Neon R/T).

You guys can't just throw out a couple brand names and claim you've got them in your engine and your turning stellar numbers with them. You simply look like a fool around those of us who have put the bread, sweat, and time in to really build an eleven second or faster ride. I'm always running into some guy who claims his SS 396 Chevelle could run 10s because he put in a bigger cam "hydraulic no less" and a set of headers. Cut the BS OK? We know the deal. I suppose you've got a NHRA legal 6 point bar, and five point restraint harness in there too right? You do if your running in the 11s. Have you even been to a drag strip?

Hemiman
http://home.talkcity.com/SpeedwayDr/hemiman/index.html

[roodypoo]

he hemiman did a spit any numbers out at what my truck could do? who was this directed at? i don't know because i never have had it at the track. but i know i wouldn't be in the 11's i guarentee you that. i'm thinking maybe some where in the 13's if i am lucky the way she sits now. plus i don't mopar bash i just realize the fact that other manufacters over the years have built fast cars and as far as neon rt's i laugh. they would have to take out the iroc rt daytona before i even considered them.

[cruzerjd]

roodypoo, your truck is not running 11's with the combo you gave us, maybe 13's, no faster. The point is, this is a Mopar site, you are very proud of your truck so you should be looking for a site that would appreciate it more. I am not slamming you, just pointing out a few options besides pissing everyone here off. A well built Neon will run 13's on motor, 12's on nitrous. My reason for doubting your claim is that you would have to be running about 450 hp to move that truck into the 11's but about 300 to see 13's. Aerodynamics are the reason. I don't see that much power unless you are running boost of some kind or a stroker motor. cruzerjd

[Hemiman]

Yes, there have been lots of fast cars produced by other manufacturers. The ZL-1 Camaro, 427 Mustang or Cobra, no one disputes they were fast. You might get an arguement on HOW fast and whether they were quicker than an equivalent mopar. Well, you WILL get an arguement here! Which brings me to my point. This website is dedicated to MOPARS, I don't think anyone here really comes here to discuss what many mopar folk call "brand-X". So if arguements here sound all "One-Sided" and tunnel vision towards mopars in general, well DUH

May I refer my arguement to the label in the upper left hand corner of your browser....

Get REAL, Get _______

Hemiman

[roodypoo]

did even read what i wrote i said 13's if i was lucky buddy! yeah maybe your right maybe i should talk about all the mopar's my family has but don't cock mustangs, lets see a 1962 polara 500 covrt woith a 413 max wedge original car, another 62 vrt with a 361,
a 1963 polara 500 vrt 4spd 383,
1958 dodge d500 covrt
1961 300g convrt
1968 barracuda formula s 4 spd 383 all original and 7 made
1969 dodge charger with a 500 hp 360 and this is my car.
1993 dodge iroc rt blue 4spd 1 of 8 blue ones made 60,000miles and pictures of it rolliung down assembly line,
1964 plymouth with 426 maxwedge that runs low 11's high 10's. i come from a mopar family bud and i love mopars but i just happen to have a taste for all things automotive, don't hate ford and chevy they ain't the enemy, imports are. by the way my splash is the only non mopar car in my whole entire family.
plus numerous parts cars and such,

Originally posted by cruzerjd:
roodypoo, your truck is not running 11's with the combo you gave us, maybe 13's, no faster. The point is, this is a Mopar site, you are very proud of your truck so you should be looking for a site that would appreciate it more. I am not slamming you, just pointing out a few options besides pissing everyone here off. A well built Neon will run 13's on motor, 12's on nitrous. My reason for doubting your claim is that you would have to be running about 450 hp to move that truck into the 11's but about 300 to see 13's. Aerodynamics are the reason. I don't see that much power unless you are running boost of some kind or a stroker motor. cruzerjd

[This message has been edited by roodypoo (edited July 11, 2000).]

[84GreyRam]

I happen to know roodypoo, he's a good friend of mine that I--for the most part--grew up with. Our dad's also grew up together and bought and drove nothing but mopar's, and still do. Roodypoo got hooked by the "cuteness" <cough><cough> of the Splash.(Nothing against you roodypoo) That aside, his Splash is pretty quick once it gets going. The 5.0 that he has in it would smoke the original Blizzak rubber he had on it all the way through about 60 or 70.... well through second gear(automatic). He now has some decent rubber on it(about 9 or 10 inches wide) and that little 5.0 has a hard time breaking that rubber loose off the line with an open rear end......but gets up and goes at about 25 or 30. I'm not trying to build his Splash up, just mentioning some facts. It's fast, but not the fastest by any means. I just wish it was a Dakota with warmed-over 318 or 360 that he was driving.
It's just more fun to beat people with a Mopar!!!
His true love is mopars, he just got the Phord flue bug.
Our family currently has these mopars:
99 Ram 1500 QC 2wd 360 3.91 suregrip- a blast to drive
84 Ram 150 318 4bbl 2wd-mine
83 Ram 150 4x4 360 4bbl
90 Spirit ES 3.0
90 Daytona ES 3.0 5 spd-mine-it tops out at 125--WEEEEEEE!!!
75 Cordoba 360 2bbl
95 Cirrus-sis's

My dad's past cars of the days':
62' Plymouth Sport Fury 361 auto
64' Dodge Polara 500 426 4spd
66' Plymouth Belvedere 383 auto
67' Dodge Coronet R/T 440 auto
68' Road Runner 383 auto
70' Charger 383 auto

The 67' R/T was his fav. for obvious reasons.
It had 3.21 gears and would top out at 147mph
It would be an awsome car to have today.

Now that I'm done braggin', I understand that most of you, including myself, don't think roodypoo should be posting about a fairly fast Splash in this Mopar group. But he's doing so not out of hate, but becuase he loves mopar's but has something that he built that is non-mopar that will beat a lot of new mopars that are fast.

I'M JUST WAITING FOR THE DAY THAT HE GETS HIS BIG-EGGOED BUT KICKED BY AN UNSUSPECTING MOPAR!!!!!!!

[cruzerjd]

roodypoo, my mistake, I thought you were braggin 11's, peace mon...I don't mean to sound like an ass but sometimes I can't help myself. Guess i should read the text a little more, lol... I think your truck sounds cool but I came here to read about Mopar's. Another item, don't slam the new Mopars so much. The bean counters are the problem. If Ma Mopar came out with a V8 muscle type car I wouold be first in line to get one but the guys who hold the pursestrings at Daimler/Chrysler can't seem to justify the cost, go figure. For now I will drive my mild;y hopped M-body but soon I will have to go with the Neon. Decent performance with good gas mileage and a large aftermarket, I can't pass it up. cruzerjd

[roodypoo]

yeah you don't know how i wish i could get a new charger to park next to the 69, i am a college student and don't have 70 grand for a viper, but jeez you think that they would wise up and build a new road runner or something affordable with a v8 and rear wheel drive, i think that if the neon srt comes out i am going to get one, that or the dakota rt when it gets the 5.7l hemi because those thing are going to rock.