What happen to the V-8?

[67 Plymouthcuda]

Can anyone tell me what happen to the V-8 these days? This last weekend I took my car out for the first time this year. I've been working on it sence Dec. 03. Anyway that is another story. As I was driving around, I've been getting these four banger comming up and challenging me. At first I was having fun. Blowing them away, from stop light to stop light. After the third Honda, I was getting bord. It wasn't fun anymore. There was no challenge. I'm not saying that I have a real fast car, by all means. All I have is a small block V-8. The V-8's are getting replace by the four bangers. What is going on?????

[MoparMarcIdaho]

but its the way of the world,high gas prices,emissions,crowded roads,insurance rates,and basically the auto makers charging more and giving us less.Its all part of the big master plan to protect us from ourselves.Next it will be cameras in the street signs and mail in citations and big brother with his nose right up you know where.Its gonna get worse before it gets better I can garuntee you.

[racintracy]

I know what you mean 67. I have run into the same with my 93 Dak. and it's not even close to what I call fast. Reminds me of what we saw when we went to England on vacation a few yrs. ago. Seems like we (the US) follows suit to England on lots of things. I personally don't care what they try to shove down my throat I'm not going to a 4 puker. I'll work harder to afford the gas for my V8 if I have too!

[67 Plymouthcuda]

I hate to tell you this MoparMarcIdaho, but we already have camera on the street signs and mail in citations here in Calif. I think you are right Racintracy. But the price of gas these day, I think its cheaper if I try to make my own gas. No matter what, I'm keeping my 8!!!!!

[pcrmike]

Everyone and his brother has a mouse or a rat, and we have fun picking on them. I recently built a 360 for a friend of mine with ported, polished heads, M1 intake, 750 Edelbrock, Isky cam, Rhoads lifters, ARP fasteners throughout, you know, a semi-smooth idling, 13 mpg (A518 tranny) D100 pickup. Kid in a blown Mustang tries to pass him starting at about 40 mph, Kev punched it and held him at bay, the guy didn't pass him until the next passing zone, when Kev didn't punch it. He can't believe the power this thing lays down. He has owned a number of Chevies, but is rolling in it with his Dodge. The truck has enough oats to squeal and burn all the way through 1st, squawk real good into 2nd, and scratch into 3rd. All this with a 3.21 rear. No juice. He was impressed by his old Vortech chebbie until he got this. Now, he is a die-hard Dodge man, and nobody else in town can take him. I ported and polished his heads, to run 9.5:1 on 87-octane, and have smooth, high-velocity intake charge for torque. The stock 360 head is not real good for this, but it was what he had. I believe that alt more can be done with the Magnum head. WAHAHAHAHAHA! Just wait til the 440 I am building for another customer now rolls out. The computer says somewhere in the range of 550-575 ft.lbs of torque from 2000-4000 rpm and 400-420 hp from 3500-5000 rpm. True, building it for pulling, but what a tire-melter that will be with a 4.11:1 Dana 70 limited slip! <chebbie guys

[MoparMarcIdaho]

so we have someone to blow into the weeds!

[jetsr6]

I raced a 71 mustang with a 351, headers, flowmasters
my truck 89 dakota 318, exhust manifuls, ultra flows
beat him by a car in the 1/4
he wont race me nomore with my new goodys

[67 Plymouthcuda]

It funny how much money the ford and the chevy guys put in thier engine, just to keep up with a stock mopar!

[rumblefish360]

I've done a few Chevy's when I was a kid. Once I was intro'ed to a Mopar, I never went back. My buddy had one of those mutent 318's. What a blast. He then ended up with a 383 RR purchased of the track. NOW that was a BLAST!
Going back about 15 + years, the price of MoPars was still 2 times the comp and I didn't care. The stock heads done right and a stout cam was all that was needed to open up the can.

On the 4 banger ricers, there just a fly in the ontment. It just bothers me when I have the kids in the car and there mouth just opens up like there butt on a bowl when sick.

[MoparMarcIdaho]

I ever worked on had a 440 in it.

[racintracy]

I also saw a 55 Chevy with a build 440 in it in a magazine several yrs. ago. When they asked the owner why he said because he liked the look of the 55 Chevy and wanted it to actually be fast.

[MoparMarcIdaho]

Afriend of mine recently traded into a partially finished 55,tubbed rollcage narrowed 9 in,and thats where we are at on it,I told him if he goes 440 I willpaint it for him,the local chevvie guys are having a fit,trying to turn him on to 454 blocks and so forth but we are both died in the wool chrysler fanatics and he has a good RB block already,and then I got this chrysler marine hemi in the other day.youjust dont need to do as much with mopar stuff as you do with bowtie gaga to go fast and be consistant so there!

[67 Plymouthcuda]

A chevy with a mopar engine? Guess their heartbeat needed a heart pacer.


Rumblefish, why don't you show your kids what a four banger fly swatter looks like.

[NZ 440R/T]

I guess the car makers are using there heads. No kid want s a heavy gas guzzler that "old people" drive. Then again what would some punk know about cars. Need sto be light as hell so the engine will actually move the car. Thats the main thing I hate about todays cars, it's all power to weight, no engine balls just a light car, like making a coke can quick, who can't do that! We have heaps of modern V8's down here the Holdens who have the new Gen-3 Chev engine pumping out 300kw/400hp stock and Ford Austalia has some nice V8's out. Good fun seeing the 8's racing the rice. They usually lose off the mark b ut eat 'em after 50mph or so. Losing to quick japs, not the honda typs, Subarus and what-not the cars worthy of racing.


See some downunder V8's below.........

[rumblefish360]

67 Plymouthcuda;

Rumblefish, why don't you show your kids what a four banger fly swatter looks like

For now, my daughter is 10 and knows what a T-Q is from 50 feet laying in a junk pile. Also understands the diff. between big and small block. Shes doing fine.
My son whom is 2 tries to get into the act when I'm at it. Picking up wrenchs and ratchets and actually putting them on bolts. I think I may be in trouble. Come to think of it, I better get him a car now before it's to late. I may just come home to a half disassembled car when his 10.

As far as the 17 and up crowd, I get tired of them. I tell'em straight faced and serious, I don't need another ricer in my yard, I have several from the last few race's. When the balk at it, I come around with something like, "Wait, I have one of those, ya need parts." Then I pester then until the TRY to leave me behind. After about 10 - 15 mins. of chasing them, because the can't loose me, they surrender. Then I make myself a REAL pest. Ya want parts, ya want parts, ya want parts, come on, I think I have 2 of those in my yard now, ya want parts ya want parts ya want parts.......

[George G. Leverette]

Beter stay away from SOCAL the ricers are running a lotta 10s some 9s in street driven cars, WRXs and Lancers will eat most old Mopars for lunch, look at some of the test data on the four door imports that are running low 14s with the A\C on. My wifes 04 PT Cruiser is cranking out 220 factory ponies and thats the same figure as my 1972 340 with the PT weighing slightly less. Pick your Ricer carefully, a hybrid maybe or things could turn ugly quickly. I run V-8s 1972 340 Duster, 1974 360 Duster and project 1968 barracuda with 383 therefore I am aware of the actual performance because I run at the strip where the times are recorded and all parties are there for the same purpose. Street racing is unsafe and irresponsible and should not be done under any circumstance.

[67 Plymouthcuda]

George, I've seen those 14, 13 sec. 1/4 mile four banger on the track. There is no way an average kid on the street can afford all the high performance parts to make them run in the 13's. I was talking about factory to factory. Performance straight out of the factory. The 10 and 9, you are talking about is a ---- load of money. I don't know what is going on with your 340, but with a little bit of money, my 318 is running in the low 13's.

[67 Plymouthcuda]

Oh, by the way George. You are correct street racing is unsafe and should not be done. But if you look around most of us who owns real muscle cars are not the one who is racing on the street. Its those little four banger who thinks they are fast, cause they seen the movie " The fast and the furious".

[67 Plymouthcuda]

Rumblefish360, glad to hear you are showing your kids how to work on these older cars. Some of these newer mechanics don't know nothing. If there's no plug-in on your vehicle to tell the computer what is wrong, they can't help you. So, if you own an older vehicle, you better know how to work on them or know an older mechanic who know's how.

[fastmopars .inc]

yeah street racing is stupid and foolish but hey, i have yet to let an import rev his engine beside me and get away without a fight. every single one of the little bastards have had to hang their head in shame when they finally catch up to me again, most of them won't even pull back up beside me.

you have to remember that a horsepower number means almost nothing. our cars are devoid of all the safety equipment that hounds these new vehicles so their lightweight little dune buggies actually end up weighing on the plus side of 3000 lbs if you want any options. and your 220 hp pt cruiser also comes with maybe 200 ft lbs of torque and it doesn't have half of that under 3000 rpm.

another advantage we have is our cars were designed from the start to be superior in a straight line acceleration contest, where as the import crowd are cruising around in a bunch of econo wagons with expensive bandaids to try and get them some kind of traction and power. basically, its easier nowadays to make a diesel truck go 13's than an import.

[NZ 440R/T]

Yip hp means nothing. I've always put my car around the same power/weight ratio as a "300hp ricey". My car might be pumping 400hp but it's also carring a elephant. We have heaps and HEAPS of ricies down here and HEAPS of those cars would beat my Challenger, I'm talking from the launch they'd be gone until around the 25-35mph mark. I'm not talking 1.8l hondas I'm talking Subaru WR-X's, Supras etc that are done up hard and with the help of 4x4 there launches are hard and most reach the 60mph mark in around 4 seconds so my Challenger and most of your guys cars wouldn't have a chance, but my Challenger is basically stock apart from headers (will have them) so it's like racing a 2l honda in a HEMI.Some Japs are quick but it aint the engine doing the talking it's the weight so who cares, there cars not quick it's just light, ours are old, heavy and have an engine still able to do 13 seconds quarters.................stock. I love my MoPar muscle but it makes me laugh every time I see a post saying something like this, "Yeah my 1971 Charger with a 360 pumping out 350hp whooped a 2l Turbo 4x4 Mitsubishi, it just couldn't happen and makes the rest of us who look bad like were all dreamers or all talk.

Anyhow, Power to weight is all rice is. Nothing more nothing less.

[68fury]

I think the important thing is to distinguish ricers from the import performance guys.

ricers are all show no go, mom's old Honda with a fart can. Import performance is just that. OK 800 BHP Toyotas take some serious money to build, but 350 or 400 BHP ones don't so much and they are pretty firey.

I know a few guys with WRX, Cosworth Fords or Lancer Turbos and those things are quick. 350 - 450 BHP and good traction.

I even know guys running mid 13s in Vauxhall / Opel 4 cyl cars with FWD. Buy one for a grand upwards, half that again in modifications. Its not expensive and they get 40 MPG...

Know a guy who used to buy up old MG Maestro Turbos. FWD, 8 valve 4 pot, 2 liter, buy them for less than $500 complete. Junk the seats, carpet, sound deadener, reset the boost level and they run high 12s on street tyres. They fall in a pile of cr@p after a couple of months of this kind of use but you just buy another one. Even if the motor doesn't blow it will rust to pieces. Embarrassing to be beat by a rusted out POS bought cheap and flogged hard.

IIRC the fastest street legal import over here is a Nissan Skyline GTR which runs mid 10s.

90% of the rice stuff is easy to beat junk, but theres a fair swell of faster stuff.

WRX and new Lancer EVO run mid 13s off the showroom floor and theres more WRX round here than you can shake a stick at. You can buy a tidy '92 or '93 WRX for about £6K, regular Impreza Turbo Sport for about £2000.

On the other hand I know plenty of guys in small blocks running 14, 15 even 16 seconds in A & B bodies.

Maybe they're doing something wrong but thats what I see, and thats what ricers are starting to see, and they see a mild modded WRX stomp a small block Charger they get the idea their little Honda can do the sam

[NZ 440R/T]

Made a lot of good points there 68fury.

The WR-X's and Legacy Subaru's can do high 13's to low 14 second quarters stock. It isn't expensive to get them up to 350-400hp take an average kid 3 or 4 months to save the dosh then he's got him self a mid 12 second car that can travel 3 times the distance as a small block Charger. Always at the drags down here I see little ricies running 16's or higher but then again I saw a Mopar 6-pak pulling 15 seconds.
It takes a lot to get a Challenger, Cuda or Charger into the 10 second street driven range, when you get that quick and it's still street driven you won't even make it out the end of your street because you tank would be empty. Ricies seem to get into the 11 second zone and stop but still get 30mpg and have 4 doors!?!? I hate rice but sometimes they ARE quick.

Oops I mean the Japanese Import performance guy, not ricies.

Mind you I'm talking about from a complete stand still not rolling starts, once my elehpant6 has moved a tiny bit from the line then it's all on rice boys!! I got something they can never have!!!!! TORQUE!!!!

[67 Plymouthcuda]

Maybe I should clairified something here. The cars I was talking about is here in California. With all the smog and emission contral junk in them. They are not that fast. They are peppy, and believe me, I've driven a few. ( Just to see what all the hipe was). I was not impress. All the Legacy and I think the WRX's are illegal, or are not avalible here in the states. All we have here are the wantabe racer. So if you want to make these four banger go fast and still pass the smog and emission test, you are going to spend a whole lot of money.

[NZ 440R/T]

I just hate seeing a few of "us", us being the men who drive real cars - MoPar Muscle!! degrade themselves like those little punks. For an example, Some rice boy might come up against a mean sounding V8 in an Impala and drag it off with ease.....he'll then go around talking about how he whooped a BIG "worked" V8 "Muscle" car when obvisouly it's not the case. Then there are some Muscle car drivers who just about degrade themselves in the same manner saying "yeah I've beaten all rice burners I've come up against" (which could be the case) but still if they come across a real quick import racer they'd soon see the rear end of it also. If there going to talk about who they whipped describe the car for all we know there mean drag racing story could have been against a 1.6l Honda. If your talking about a 3l Turbo with 4x4 (slightly-mediumly worked) and you win in your stock 440 now thats a story.

[68fury]

Does California not get the WRX then? I know its had a USA release because Hot Rod tested one against a Mustang a couple of issues back. Theres some old Eagle and Saturn stuff which is supposed to be quick 4 cyl "rice style" US market stuff. I kinda fancied trying to get a Eagle Turbo-Whatever for over here because I needed something with good mileage. But now I just daily drive a 318 and try and drive it gentle...

Whats interesting is I picked up a couple of copies of American "Import" magazines when I was waiting at Chicago O'Hare for a connecting flight back to London and they read pretty much like Hot Rod or Popular Hot Rodding for 4 pots. Over here the import and FWD magazines read like kids comics with topless models and all this talk about "b!tches and hoes" and that and NO tech. I'm kinda interested in how they get little 4 bangers fast, not to do one myself, but to see how they do it. UK magazines don't say, its all about how many handbrake turns and pathetic 1 wheel burnouts you did in MacDonnalds parking lot before the cops came and ticketed you.

Then they complain how kids get really high insurance

[68fury]

Originally posted by NZ 440R/T
Some rice boy might come up against a mean sounding V8 in an Impala and drag it off with ease.....he'll then go around talking about how he whooped a BIG "worked" V8 "Muscle" car when obvisouly it's not the case.

Yeah, that really p***es me off too! I deliberately don't even race the slow junk in my daily as even if I did beat them it wouldn't be by enough to show what a decent V8 could do. So I just keep it cool... Parts are on order though, my daily will be hunting imports before long

[NZ 440R/T]

What'cha driving over there in England mate?

You watch the All Blacks vs the Poms Rugby match?
My Sister flew out to England yesterday and just arrived right now, 24 hours later....sheesh stuff that I don't think I could be couped up that long.

[67 Plymouthcuda]

Originally posted by 68fury
Does California not get the WRX then? I know its had a USA release because Hot Rod tested one against a Mustang a couple of issues back. Theres some old Eagle and Saturn stuff which is supposed to be quick 4 cyl "rice style" US market stuff. I kinda fancied trying to get a Eagle Turbo-Whatever for over here because I needed something with good mileage. But now I just daily drive a 318 and try and drive it gentle...

My mistake, I must apologize to you guy. It wasn't the WRX that the US don't have. It was the EVO from Mitsubishi. But I was informed earlier today that they will soon be here. Don't know when. Who know's , they might already be here. I just don't keep up on all the newer plastic and tin can cars these days.

[68fury]

no problem, 67plymouthcuda, you just had me confused as some US based guys I know claim to have seen them pesky WRX out there.

NZ440R/T - I am currently daily driving a '86 Chrysler Fifth Avenue (occasionally a Saab 9000 until someone finally buys it off me!) and I have a '67 Rambler (AMC) Ambassador convertable which I'm using for non-heavy-traffic duties until I'm happy I fixed that overheating...

The '68 Sport Fury is a project car at the moment, I was using it on the road but now I need to get it stripped for paint. I can't decide whether to go for a warm 360 (408?) in it or a big block. I kinda like the fact it handles pretty good with the small block and I've beaten FWD ricers on twisty roads in it before! Amazing but true.

I don't really follow sports, England tends to loose whatever we play internationally these days anyway, except the Rugby in Aus which I think must have been witchcraft or something for us to have won!