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  #1  
Old 03-19-2007, 08:40 PM
1970cuda 1970cuda is offline
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LOL 1970 Hemi Cuda

Hello,

I have found a 1970 cuda with the drive train missing. I am told it it a true hemi car but I do not know how to tell for sure. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how I could tell a true 70 hemi cuda body. Motor and 4spd and rear axle, fender tag are missing. I am inclined to believe the owner since he is a close relative, but I would like to be certain. I assume the frames, etc were beefed up, K member, etc. I,m a Chevy guy, ask me a question about a Camaro or Nova and I could answer you but Mopars are new to me. Any and all help would be greatly welcomed. If there is a publication that tells all please let me know what it is also .


Thank You,

Steve
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2007, 10:18 PM
djwhog djwhog is offline
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Red face

Steve are there any IDs to speak of anywhere on the car? So it is just a shell I guess?

Whitout a tag even it is and is restored the 67 & up cars all had VINs and tags, so as collector $$$ go it will not be in the same money league without the tags and proof.

I know that on pre 67 cars most tags and or vins were optional.

Can you get anything else to go on? How would it get registered with no tags, vin etc???


Be very carefull.
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2007, 10:25 PM
Mr.Mopar383 Mr.Mopar383 is offline
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Steve
I don't know about the 1970 year but on earlier Mopars, I have been told that the right rear (passenger side) leaf springs have more springs to compensate for torque/wheel hop. I saw this on a 67 Hemi GTX. That might help, might not. You don't have much to go on if there are no identification markers
Good luck.
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  #4  
Old 03-19-2007, 11:09 PM
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That is true of any R/T and that is something that can be changed by anyone with a wrench. Therefore, it is not definative proof. The same goes for the K-member.

Without the VIN and fender tags, the car has no real value. The radiator support bracket has a partial VIN stamped in it. The fresh air cowl (just unedr the windshield wipers) will have a partial VIN stamped in it (normally on the drivers side). Under the weather stripping of the trunk, is another location for a partial VIN. None of these partial VINs will call out the engine.

If you have the title and can match the partial VIN to the VIN on the title, then you can use the full VIN on the title to determine what was originally in the car.
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2007, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
fender tag are missing.
Red Alert, Red Alert!!!!!!!!
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2007, 12:30 AM
memnoch451 memnoch451 is offline
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I too find it very suspect when all id is missing...

1970 should have a vin# and if the car has never been out of IL in the last 20years the vin # on the title should be a start to your search

Being from IL my self I do recall that even on my 1969 olds the vin# matched the paper work.

Time to start doing some reseach of buy the car at non hemi price and fix it up non stock like and drive it?
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2007, 09:03 AM
1970cuda 1970cuda is offline
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Default Thank You

Thank you for the info. The car was my wife's Grandfathers. From what I was told and the pictures of his cars, he was a Gear Head, always buiding up and racing cars. I have some old pictures of the car and it does have a Hemi sitting in it. He took the car apart to restore it I believe, at least thats what it looks like. Its sitting in his old building that he worked on his cars in and there is a bunch of parts all over including in the rafters. I am hoping I will be able to find the title, ID and fender tags, etc. in his office area.

What I am trying to find out is if the body shell and/or frame rails, etc, had any extra welds, welding, support brakets, like tork boxes or anything else that would at least identify it as a more than a normal 70 cuda. If it does not have these then there would not be as pressing need to find the paper work.

Thanks Again,

Steve
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2007, 09:20 AM
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If he was going to restore it, where did the engine and drive train go?
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2007, 09:44 AM
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You have...NO...HAVE to find that tag. The car is just about worthless without it.
A real 70 HEMI Cuda is worth huge dollors, even in a poor poor condition. Fully restored,, forgetabout!
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick View Post
If he was going to restore it, where did the engine and drive train go?
To supplement my original thoughts..................no fender tag...............no drive train......................maybe someone wanted to build a "numbers matching" Hemi Cuda and he sold the kit?

It doen't make sense. A true gearhead who owned a real Hemi Cuda wouldn't part with the entire drive train AND necessary documentation if he was really interested in restoring the car.
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2007, 10:31 PM
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There is nothing (ont the body) that is unique Hemi (from the factory). Torque boxes were on all R/Ts and convertibles. The R/T rear sprigs were on all R/Ts. The K-member is the same one that was used with the 440-6.

Without the paperwork to match to the partial VIN stamps, there is NOTHING on that car that would be definative Hemi.
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  #12  
Old 03-21-2007, 11:01 AM
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Could the fender tag have been put away somewhere safe?
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2007, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bell View Post
Could the fender tag have been put away somewhere safe?
In the bathroom between the Hemi and the 4 yank!

Sorry Ray, another weak moment.
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2007, 11:25 AM
1970cuda 1970cuda is offline
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Biggrin Some good news!!!

I am hoping he did just that and put them somewhere for save keeping. I hope to get over this week end again, I was able to take a quick look through the building and the garage in back after work last night, before it got dark.
I have found a couple of manual transmissions, bell housings, etc and three rear axle housings. All of them are not Chevy items. Is there a way to tell which trans and rear end ( if they are even from this car) would have been in the car. Just for my knowledge what 4 spd and rear axle came in a Hemi Cuda and/or were there various options. I appreciate the info and your time. Thanks
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2007, 12:41 PM
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If Im not mistaken, the Rear end should have been a Dana 60, not sure on the 4 speed though
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2007, 05:34 PM
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The 4-speed had to be a New Process A833 with a long tail, 1970 would probably have had two 3-bolt mounts for the shifter on the tail housing. The shifter would mount on the rearmost one.

Input shaft would have 18 splines, not 23.

Need pictures?
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  #17  
Old 03-21-2007, 09:58 PM
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The correct tranny will have a partial VIN stamped on a flat pad. It should match all of the others that I mentioned before.
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  #18  
Old 03-21-2007, 11:17 PM
memnoch451 memnoch451 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bell View Post
The 4-speed had to be a New Process A833 with a long tail, 1970 would probably have had two 3-bolt mounts for the shifter on the tail housing. The shifter would mount on the rearmost one.

Input shaft would have 18 splines, not 23.

Need pictures?
I'm impressed...
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  #19  
Old 03-22-2007, 06:32 PM
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Nahh... I mucked that up...

It wouldn't be a 'probably' with that second shifter mount, it would be a definite.

Anyway, what I've learned, I've mostly learned from you guys. I've often said that my greatest ability is working out who to listen to and knowing who to ask.
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  #20  
Old 03-27-2007, 09:10 PM
1970cuda 1970cuda is offline
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Default Found some parts

My brother and I had a chance to spend Sunday looking through most of the cars parts he had stored away. We found the Dana 60 with the correct numbers and the A833, w/18 spline shaft also shifter and linkage. It looks like the interior is mostly all there also.
It seems like there is enough parts for two or three cars. There are two dash frames and three instrument clusters. There are two with one large gauge and three smaller ones, no tach and one with the four large gauges including a tach.
here is also three K Frames and front suspension pieces.
I have a few questions on what came on a Hemi Cuda and/or what was available as options , etc.
1. Did the hemi cuda come with any special dash or could it have either?
2. What radiator and shroud would it have come with?
3. Is there any way to know what leaf springs came on it by looking at them?
4. how do you tell the difference between a 340, 440 and 426 K frame?

Thanks for all the help.
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  #21  
Old 03-28-2007, 12:12 AM
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1. The correct instrument cluster was the R/T cluster with the 4 large pods.
2. The radiator would have been 26 inch.
3. The springs would have been a set with 5 leafs on one side and 6 on the other.
4. All V8 engines used the same K-member. The 440-6 and Hemi had a slightly different K-member. The oil pan shiled extended down slightly further, to protect the deeper oil pan.
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  #22  
Old 03-28-2007, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehostler View Post
Without the VIN and fender tags, the car has no real value......
Now I'm not saying I disagree as you are right. But I'm just going to get it out that the car has lots and lots of value. In fact, what collectors see the cars as dollar wise is not real. I don't believe value is determined by the quantity or identification of something. Obviously any documentation helps prove what the car is/was. But I know I'm not going to turn down a car or try and greatly talk down a price because a silly tag is missing.

Note again I'm not arguing with you or anything eholster. I just feel that "real value" is determined by the condition and mileage, how much is left.

I mean, we see lots of great cars with thousands and thousands of extra performance goodies go for next to nothing, while just because a car is sporting is original, most likely out performed by lots of new stuff go for almost a million dollars, with some rust showing "just a nick here and there"

So I'm going to say.. Without the tags/documentation, the car has lots of value for someone actually looking for a car to build, drive, maintain and love. Collector value is not real, it's not even close. Collectors must be insane, literally. Even if I had an extra $500,000 for whatever I wanted you can be damn sure I wouldn't buy an original Hemi car, I would buy a totally crazy, rediculous jet powered something. Honestly.. A quarter million dollars for a 40 year old vehicle?? Now I love my mopars, but we have to draw a line somewhere.

Not to mention how many of these cars that make $200,000 + have probably started out from a poor old lady's garage who would have let her "junker" as she sees it go for $3500 to one of these guys who make killer buck off of it. It makes me sick to think about.

PS.. I apologize for my rant, I guess it's been a bad day or two
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  #23  
Old 03-28-2007, 01:35 AM
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Without any trace of the VIN, it will be near impossible to register the vehicle. The state police have to get involved and if they are able to determine that it is not stolen, they will make a state issued VIN and rivet it to the door frame. Even if it were dressed up as a hemi car, the state issued VIN will hurt the value of the vehicle.

If I were in the market, I would start with a 318 car that at least had documentation. A 318 car properly cloned into a hemi car would be worth more than a no tag/documentation vehicle with a nasty stated issued VIN riveted to the door frame.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2007, 03:41 AM
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Very true but I don't believe that because your state or wherever you are from makes it hard to register a car on the road takes away from the value.. It's just more of a hassle to get the car on the road in your name, should that affect the value?

I guess it's possible I just don't understand how the value is determined. A tag or document means next to nothing to me, more than half the stuff that was issued upon the production of the car is long gone anways.

On a side note I have actually lost the VIN tag (I believe) to my 68 Charger, it's a long long way from the road yet, and I'm not looking to sell it at all. I guess that's why I think of it this way. I judge the value of a car by what I see and feel, not by what some tag says was put there 30+ years ago. But I guess that's why I'm not one who's cashing in huge on these cars...

Eh I've had enough opinion stating, I'm sure I'm sending the wrong idea of myself. I just strongly believe the most important thing when buying a car is what is there now, and what shape it's in. And what's there now is "real value" or at least that's how I see it.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2007, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigshot
.....I just strongly believe the most important thing when buying a car is what is there now, and what shape it's in. And what's there now is "real value" or at least that's how I see it.
Wrong! It's what it means to you!

Most of what you have posted here is in some sort of accord with my thoughts on the subject.

Collectors and collections are the bane of the automotive hobbies. There is very little connection between the real value of the car and the price they will pay... because their thoughts aren't with the cars but with the supposed value.

It's hard for me to reconcile to what I see on these fora. Many people ask first about what things are "worth" before they ask what they are like to drive, what issues they might have maintaining them, what difficulties might face them and how to take care of them. Not to mention how they compare to similar cars.

Are we car enthusiasts or are we investors?

Simple question...
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  #26  
Old 03-04-2017, 04:07 PM
70hemicuda.dk 70hemicuda.dk is offline
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Hi 70cuda.
did y ever find the prove ?
1970 E body hemi cars have a metal pinion snub er plate over the rearasxel, the metal is welded at the factory. noune can later make this as cloon then the factory welsing is mashin made befor the car is all together, the hemi car have the same middel panel in the panels like the cab cars, no other Ht cars have the middle panel only hemi cars
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2017, 06:16 PM
chirorod chirorod is offline
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I feel that motor just has to be hiding there somewhere. He might have wanted extra security for a hemi.
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  #28  
Old 03-05-2017, 01:54 AM
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Biggrin

Ten year old thread.
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  #29  
Old 03-09-2017, 02:53 AM
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You're good at that, Dick...

I wonder if a PM would locate the OP?
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  #30  
Old 03-09-2017, 10:53 PM
whtbaron whtbaron is offline
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Odds are he's either driving it, or forgot about it by now. My money is on the latter...
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