First Muscle Car

[ClassicDodge]

It's not only the magazines; it's television also. I've seen two shows on the History Channel about classic cars. One was about old cars in general and they commented on how Pontiac GTO's started the muscle car era. THEN they had another show about the history of muscle cars. It was about an hour I think and around 45 minutes of it was about Pontiac and their involvement on starting the muscle cars. The other 15 minutes or so were about what Ford and Mopar were doing during this time. Basically neglecting everyone, including Chevy, except for Pontiac.

Roody, you can't forget the '62 Galaxie's with the 406ci engine and 3x2brl carbs, cast iron headers and a 4spd.

Heck, if we're going to back to the 40's with muscle cars we might as well mention the Tucker Torpedo.

[Stoga]

I'm as liable to say the Stutz Bearcat was the 1st american musclecar, though the Imperials that ran Lemans should also get a vote. Giving it to the GTO is silly though, way too many factory hot rods made before 1964 to even give the thought much credit, even if you seek to restrict it just to mid-size cars.

[Doug Wilson]

Tri-Power 348. 360 HP 352. 390/401. 283/283. J-2. C300. Road Race Lincolns. Twin-H.

I think Muscle cars are in the mind of the beholder. It's nice to claim that we (MOPAR) started it all, just not true.

To me, a Muscle car is a car, modified by the factory to give superior performance to their bread and butter lines. Doesn't matter the body style, 'cause mid-50s full-size cars weigh about the same as mid-60s intermediates.

I think, at least for me, the key is improved performance, by the factory, which makes a Muscle car.

It just happened that the term "Muscle car" wasn't coined until... what??... the late '60s??

[Buddy Branon]

62 413 Ply and Dodges were HOT........Hate to say it, but I was there........BB

[ClassicDodge]

On the 413's what was the difference between the ones in the Dodges and Plymouths compared to the Chryslers? Was it just high compression heads and pistons or was there more to it? I've been thinking about putting a 413 in my '66 Coronet but I don't want to get a low performance engine if there is a difference. I suppose I could always find some high compression heads later on but aren't they pretty hard to find?

[SUN RA KAT]

I don't think there ever was a "low performance" 413.

I remember the 413 grew into the 426, and the 426's came in two high performance versions - high compression & real high compression. Both engines came with several intake manifold & carburator set ups matched to the compression level. I think you could probably run the lower high compression heads on premium gas today, but the the high high compression heads would need special gasoline. And don't forget that these engines ran leaded fuel and you'd have to get a lead additive or modify them to run unleaded now.

[ClassicDodge]

That's what I needed to know. Thanks SUN RA KAT. I wasn't sure if they just stuffed the HIPO engines into the smaller cars of Dodge and Plymouth while they gave the big Chryslers just a more toned down type engine for "cruising".

[AZTOY]

I think it all started with the hotrod guy .When thay started puting the biggest moters thay could find in the 32 fords. Then all of the car companies started play catch up.The car companies found out that people liked fast cars. I think that started the whole muscle car thing.

[Eric Strong]

Originally posted by ClassicDodge
That's what I needed to know. Thanks SUN RA KAT. I wasn't sure if they just stuffed the HIPO engines into the smaller cars of Dodge and Plymouth while they gave the big Chryslers just a more toned down type engine for "cruising".

I don't think that a 425 H.P. 426 would be concidered toned down. That's what was available in the 63 Chrysler 300J. Here's a little food for thought, the first Chrysler, yes the 1924, was the first car to get a high compression engine (for it's day). Thanks Walter P. Chrysler! Check out chrysler300site.com

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[ClassicDodge]

Actually I was referring 413ci engines's in the early '60's Chryslers. I don't think anyone in their right mind would call a 425 horse 426ci engine "toned-down".

[SUN RA KAT]

The 1963 Chrysler 300J came with the 413 engine with dual 4 bbl carburators on a short ram intake manifold. The 426 wedge engines were available in Dodge & Plymouths only - and then only to qualified racers. One reason why the Pontiac GTO got credit for being the first muscle car instead of Dodge or Plymouth. And yes, you had to show a racing license to purchase the 426 Dodge or Plymouth. (I was a young teenager when my mom bought a Chrysler 300 and I asked the salesperson about the "fine print" about having to be a race car driver in order to get the 426 Plymouth, but I still remember him saying they won't sell the 426 in a Plymouth to anyone but a licensed race driver.)

[Eric Strong]

Originally posted by SUN RA KAT
The 1963 Chrysler 300J came with the 413 engine with dual 4 bbl carburators on a short ram intake manifold. The 426 wedge engines were available in Dodge & Plymouths only - and then only to qualified racers. One reason why the Pontiac GTO got credit for being the first muscle car instead of Dodge or Plymouth. And yes, you had to show a racing license to purchase the 426 Dodge or Plymouth. (I was a young teenager when my mom bought a Chrysler 300 and I asked the salesperson about the "fine print" about having to be a race car driver in order to get the 426 Plymouth, but I still remember him saying they won't sell the 426 in a Plymouth to anyone but a licensed race driver.)

The 413 was standard equipment, but if you check out the web site ( chrysler300site.com ) you can see for your self, that two 426 Options were available with 415 H.P. and 425 H.P. I know the 300s pretty well and have owned a 68 for over 11 years. There is no mention of a racing license in my owners manual for the 426 Hemi Option, just a notice that it is intended for racing and carries no warranty. I never heard of anyone around here needing a racing license to get the " Time Trials" engine option.

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[SUN RA KAT]

These were the 426 Wedge engines that had on the literature that they were for licensed racers only.

The literature for the 300J only mentioned the 413 Wedge with the two 4 bbl carbs on a short ram manifold. Sometimes more is available than is in the literature. The next change in engines for the 300 Letter series (at least in the literature) was in 1965 when the 375 HP 440 Wedge was the engine.

[Eric Strong]

If you go to the site I metioned above, click on history, then 63. Go to the bottom of the page, you will see all the engine Options. I was mistaken before when I said two 426s were available. There were three!!!! Go to chrysler300site.com and see for your self. And well your at it, check out chrysler300.com and check out the short story on the history of the 300. As you can see Chrysler used the technology from the development of the 300 for the cars (Dodge and Plymouth) that were used in Nascar in the late 60s and early 70s.

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[SUN RA KAT]

I went there when I saw your 1st post. It's a great site. Thanks for turning me on to it!

[Eric Strong]

Originally posted by ClassicDodge
That's what I needed to know. Thanks SUN RA KAT. I wasn't sure if they just stuffed the HIPO engines into the smaller cars of Dodge and Plymouth while they gave the big Chryslers just a more toned down type engine for "cruising".

Actually it was the other way around, and the big cars got the most power, thats why I say that the Chrysler 300 was the first muscle car. check out this site chrysler300site.com , the 55 300 had 300 h.p. in 57 they had 375 h.p. and in 63 they were available with a 425 h.p. 426 wedge. ect, ect,. Hope this helps.

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[*Mopar*]

Hi,
Eric,
I think the info on the 300 site is a type O. I have been wrong before and will say so if I am. I'm pretty sure the 426W was a Dodge/Ply only item. Just take a look on the 300 site at the 62 or 64 years and it just list the 413's. I am a big 300 fan have been for a loog time. I have 2 66 300's. I think the first MC was the 55 300 or at the very least, the early max wedge Dodge's and Plymouth's of the early 60's.

SUN RA KAT,
As far as haveing to have a race licens to get the 426. I don't think so. The sales man was probably just funning with some kid.

Thanks,
Stoney

[SUN RA KAT]

I remember seeing it printed the the brochure and then asking the salesman if it was true and he said "Yes."

Yet I don't remember what my wife told me a minute ago...

[Eric Strong]

Even though the Cyrysler 300 clubs list three 426s available for the 63 model year, I will do a little more research to verify their claim. I got my 68 300 weighed today and was relieved that in tipped the scale at 4409# with tools and junk in the trunk. i could have easily got it down to 4300# with just a cleanup.

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[GROCERYGETTER]

What about muscle trucks? Ma was putting hemis in 65 D100's.

[Eric Strong]

Originally posted by GROCERYGETTER
What about muscle trucks? Ma was putting hemis in 65 D100's.

Interesting that you should bring that up. I read an article in Hot Rod or Car and Driver that showed a picture of the first muscle truck, and yes it was a Mopar. It was a 63 or 64 Dodge. I will look it up and give you more details on it. I can't remember if it was a 413 or 426 wedge. I didn't know they were putting Hemis in the 65 though. Thanks for the info. Eric

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[custom880]

Originally posted by GROCERYGETTER
What about muscle trucks? Ma was putting hemis in 65 D100's.

Even before that. We saw one at the Bradenton Mopar cruise and it was awesome!!

[Doug Wilson]

I don't think so.

[GROCERYGETTER]

I went to Barnes&Noble and bought a book on the history of Dodge Trucks. I don't have the book with me but somewhere between 62-65 Ma put Hemi's in a few 1/2 ton trucks. Im temporarly in Virgina (recalled from retirement back into the military for 2 years) and I left my books home in Arkansas, otherwise I could look it up.

[Aspen79_400]

My Uncle Owns a 1975 dodge D100 originally Slant six, but he wants more, so he change the 225 for 360 with a camshaft with over 300 degrees, and other minimum modifications & tuned 727 automatic, now the truck can run 250 km in a highway with light traffic in 45 minutes! with the stock suspension (no lowered) no ground effects and easyly reach 280kmph or more.

The point is, this truck stick like glue on track, you can change lane fast at high speed and where you put your fron wheels, your rear folow (no oversteer) I think this chassis has the perfect balance, other friends own 1978 and 1979 dodge trucks says the same Its amazing the handle of this truck.

[Eric Strong]

Originally posted by Aspen79_400
My Uncle Owns a 1975 dodge D100 originally Slant six, but he wants more, so he change the 225 for 360 with a camshaft with over 300 degrees, and other minimum modifications & tuned 727 automatic, now the truck can run 250 km in a highway with light traffic in 45 minutes! with the stock suspension (no lowered) no ground effects and easyly reach 280kmph or more.

The point is, this truck stick like glue on track, you can change lane fast at high speed and where you put your fron wheels, your rear folow (no oversteer) I think this chassis has the perfect balance, other friends own 1978 and 1979 dodge trucks says the same Its amazing the handle of this truck.

I don't think it's quite that fast! 250km in 45 min. =333 kmph!
That's an average speed of 206 miles per hour.
Easily reach 280kmph. Nope, thats 170+ mph. 180 kmph would be a fast truck

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[GaryS]

I was selling Chryslers, Dodges and Plymouths in 1964. One of our customers traded in his '64 Dodge 1/2 ton with a 426 wedge, because it lacked traction and he got tired of having to baby it. The truck had only 2-3,000 miles on it, but he traded for a '64 Chrysler.

Our sales manager put a couple bags of concrete in the bed and went hunting for local hot cars. He beat up on everything he raced.

The only factory Hemi Dodges were '50's models. The 426 Hemi's were not offered in trucks. That said, trucks could be custom ordered from the factory with equipment not listed in the catalog. We were told by the regional fleet and truck rep to never refuse an order because we couldn't find the option a customer wanted.

I personally ordered a '64 Dodge 3/4 ton truck for a helicopter service customer that was a one-of-a-kind.

[ajmopar]

I saw an old article in Hot Rod once, somewhere around '64. where they took a new dodge truck with 426 street wedge in and set it up for stock class drag racing. They put cheater slicks on it and balanced and blueprinted it and put some gears in it and then went and gave everyone a fit at a local track. That was cool.

[Doug Wilson]

426s in trucks - maybe. 426 Hemis in trucks - nope.

[Eric Strong]

There were definately wedge motors in the trucks in 64. I couldn't find the article, so I'm going back to the library to find it. I came across 2 great artilces on early cars. In the March 02 issue of Hot Rod, there's a story of a former record holding stock eliminator that was stored for 30 years, a kid spots the 62 Dodge Dart 330 station wagon. to make a long story short ,he tells Curt Stimpson, ( a Super Stock restorer and fanatic ) who buys the car for $900 from a recent widow who said that it was in her way for 30 years. "Music Box" is the name painted on the car. Pate's tapes and records, also painted on the car. It's a dual quad 383.

In the Feb. 02 issue there is a story of a 65 Plymouth Super Stock A990, one of three factory 4 speeds known to exist. This thing was good for 10.94 at 131 m.p.h. in 1965.

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